Africans to Bono: 'For God's sake please stop!'

It's time to treat Africa like equals instead of infants.

Treating the corrupt and lazy governments like equals when they act like spoiled and entitled teenagers while they plunder their countries wealth will only serve to embolden them.

You're right, we should just give them aid... no, treating them like equals would mean stop sending them aid. Equality means holding them up to the same standards we hold ourselves to. I can't fathom how refusing aid to impoverished countries is going to somehow embolden them.

You are wrong, that is not what I said. There is much more to treating a foreign government as an equal than the issue of aid.

Please explain how we should treat these governments then... if not like equals, as lessers? Somehow I don't see this as the correct solution either.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to address the issues in Africa from a foreign policy perspective. I do know that treating countries like Zimbabwe and Sudan like equals would have no positive effects that would trickle down to their impoverish citizens.

Treating the corrupt and lazy governments like equals when they act like spoiled and entitled teenagers while they plunder their countries wealth will only serve to embolden them.

The problem here is that you are equating the governments to the African people, which couldn't be further from the truth. The governments will always serve the people in power first, not the people.

I'm unsure why you think I am equating the African people with the African governments? I am talking about foreign policy, which is usually at the governmental level.

The governments are indeed corrupt. I was in Kenya earlier this summer and it is impossible to get through some road blocks without a bribe. This exists in many countries throughout the world however, should America feel obligated to help these countries at all? Maybe use the CIA for one of its original purposes: creating coups. =)

I am African, born and raised, so I am unfortunately very familiar with what you are describing. While I believe that there is an appropriate time and place for some aid, I have also seen the very negative effects it can have on a society.

I would like to see a policy of support from the western governments that is not based on what is best for them, but based on what is the best for the future of the African people.

My guess is aid programs filled a production void caused by colonial disruption and political instability. As time went by and more generations were born without a founding the problem grew, as did the aid which allowed for more dependents to grow in a vicious cycle.

Now their production capacity is lower than the threshold needed to survive in most cases, also considering natural events like drought. Aid programs create an incentive structure away from production exacerbating the problem but has no negative effect on population growth. When all things line up perfectly for awhile and a country starts getting somewhere political instability takes over with the increased power the production led to or the potential withdrawal of aid.

I don't think external forces can correct the political situation, that has to be hashed out on their own. I expect the end result would be the dissolution of old European borders and creation of more logical ones however tradition even only 200 years old has massive inertia so maybe not.

Assistance should be personal not governmental, and provided as a means to purchase not direct replacement of local production with goods. That is capital to build a manufacturing facility - or an import business but not a ship full of drugs to be distributed. Likewise with food, capital to apply however local farmers think is best - not rice in bags or tractors dumped into fields.

I'm sure there are many farmers in the west with better (and worse) technical skills in farming but that doesn't always translate into real benefit in their region. If the farmers are given capital and perhaps a choice to use it for foreign education that might be useful too. Or let them setup a school locally and hire a few foreign experts or accept donations but not just drop some missionaries telling them how they will do it now.

Basically all my points boil down to the only assistance should be the means, let them decide how to employ it quit trying to micromanage aid. Also make aid available on an individual basis - not government basis.

another thing a lot of people don't realize is that many western countries "food aid" programs are really just crop dumping schemes for surplus crops disguised as aid to keep the market prices of those crops up... not to mention good chances that those were crops were already subsidised by the govt ... agriculture is one industry where the developing world would put the west out of business if you allowed free market forces to work on their own... stopping food dumping and excessive crop subsidies in the west is one of the best "self help" ways to reduce poverty in other parts of the world in the near term

The roots of this problem can be traced back to colonial times, when the Europeans claimed their stakes in Africa, they ignored all cultural and tribal boundaries. They came for the resources, and once they were gone or the situation became too hard to control, they left. Left in their wake were newly independent, and extremely unprepared countries. If they would have factored in different cultures and peoples when they divided Africa, the situation might have been different today.

you mean, kind of like what is going on in Iraq today?

The roots of this problem can be traced back to colonial times, when the Europeans claimed their stakes in Africa, they ignored all cultural and tribal boundaries.

The different tribes fought before the the arrival of the colonialists, and continued fighting after their departure. The root of the problem lies with the African people themselves.

They did fight before, which means that the European leaders should have taken this into consideration and not form divided countries. A country united in war is stronger than a country divided in war.

Do you think the West told them to stop working and being self-sufficient? It's more likely local corruption, a sense of entitlement and attempted exploitation of white guilt.

---Exactly - so many things that come from the West, with good intentions, have all kinds of unanticipated results over here in the developing world.

You can visit the villages located at trail heads into the Nepal national areas- villages that see lots of foreign tourists, who feel "guilty" for some reason. Kids and whole families in these villages have become completely dependent on foreign "sponsors." It is a disaster!

In other words, short-termers and people who "parachute" in really do not understand the culture. (I don't mean the superficial things like taking your shoes off in the house. I mean, the important things...) - I am not blaming the west's good intentions, perhaps they could not have anticipated the way it affects things...or, maybe it was worth a try - but it has really crippled people.

Sirensongs,

As always, your comments are insightful, civil, and relevant. I learn something every time I read what you say. Thanks, and you made some stellar points above.

I sincerely wish I could be as eloquent and as content-rich in such a relatively few words as you are. Great job!

Wow, thanks Tom! Feel like writing a testimonial on my page? ;-)

Good point. Working with China is a bit of a double-edged sword.

and fundies promoting abstinence and demoting condoms in a country where there is not much more to do besides have sex.

Never miss a chance to bash people of faith, eh Joules?

Keep in mind that the same "fundies" you bash send billions in aid, medical support, infrastructure development, and entrepreneural training and investment.

While the "fundies" are actually doing something in Africa, you sit by your computer and snidely attack them repeatedly here on Newsvine.

Feel free to speak your mind, but just know that your constant attacks on people of faith is getting to be a cliche.

By the way ... "not much more to do besides having sex" really sounds elitist and - almost bigoted in some way.

Is that what you know of African countries and their people? Is that what you think of their ability to think, reason, work, learn, and produce?

Dude, you may want to do some very serious backtracking from that comment.

In all seriousness, Bono cares about as much for Africa, as Angelina Jolie does about adopting an American kid. It's all about him. He seriously thinks he's Jesus.

Phaedrus,

I don't mean to sound contrary to you in my note #15 below. I was responding directly to the article itself in my remarks concerning Bono.

I can understand how anyone can see him as having a messianic complex, but the truth is, he pokes fun at that image all of the time and disvows it. I think a lot of that "Bono as Savior" stuff comes more from media hype than from the man himself.

Two great books: "Bono in Conversation" by Michka Assayas and "On the Move" by Bono. These paint a strongly different picture of him than what we are used to seeing in the fawning media, who really do believe he is Jesus.

Oh, wait? Isn't Bono a Western celebrity? That's one of the things we use them for: repository of frustations. Well- that, and increasing readership. Thanks for reminding us of his own words, Tom. And the article's account of Bono's awkward, but clearly personal, on-the-spot avowal of his respect for Africans is a moment of an artist caught in a political dilemma.

Thanks, IGO.

I think Bono has impressed many economists, bankers, sociologists, politicians, philanthropists, investors, entrepreneurs, and health organizations, and world and African leaders with his knowledge of Africa.

from #14.2

I can understand how anyone can see him as having a messianic complex, but the truth is, he pokes fun at that image all of the time and disvows it. I think a lot of that "Bono as Savior" stuff comes more from media hype than from the man himself.

Two great books: "Bono in Conversation" by Michka Assayas and "On the Move" by Bono. These paint a strongly different picture of him than what we are used to seeing in the fawning media, who really do believe he is Jesus.